25¢: A Video Game Podcast

Chris: So, uh, yeah.

Where's my, I lost my buttons.

There we go.

Okay.

Yeah, there we are.

At the head of the top
of good stuff Network.

Probably just 'cause it's alphabetical, I
think is how Kyle set it up at one point.

So, uh, the last thing we did
talked about was 2022 February.

So this is our three,
three year reunion maybe.

Nick: Yeah.

That's a, that's a hi.

A hiatus.

Chris: Yeah, so I think, so for
anybody who the, the millions

of you who didn't check out the
podcast, first of all, shame on you.

But basically we started the idea right
when Apple launched Apple Arcade on iOS.

So you could basically pay a
subscription fee to get, um, games

on your phone instead of buying them
or getting free with in ad purchase.

And we thought, I think we both kind
of were like, Hey, this is actually

between our kids collectively
and um, just our own interest.

It'd be kind of a neat place to talk about
Apple or arcade games, focus in on that

little niche that feels like it's a little
bit outside of the general, like obviously

it's not gonna be hardcore gamers and
stuff, and so I don't know, these many

years later we can just do a brief, like
25 cent where are, they are now updates.

But like, do you, how often do
you reach for a Apple arcade

game, do you think these days?

Nick: It, it's definitely declined.

I think, you know, when, when we,
when we started, a lot of the games

were um, you know, a little more
in the sort of artsy indie vibe.

You kind of play through the story.

It's a little bit unique and
then you're done with the game.

But it's okay 'cause there's
more arcade games coming.

Chris: Mm-hmm.

Nick: And I think if you look at the
games that are, um, common now, I think

there's sort of two big categories.

One is the, the plus series where a
previously popular, uh, generally iOS

game gets reissued under arcade, you
know, maybe updated for modern devices,

modern screen sizes, all that good stuff.

Um, and then there's then, then
there's the new, the new games.

And it's generally, it's more franchise.

It's more I.

Kind of snackable puzzle
games or maybe, you know, a, a

roguelike or something like that.

Um, I, I did fire up grindstone again
for the first time in like four years.

Uh, 'cause uh, my, I think my kid was
just playing it randomly and I was

like, oh yeah, that one was really good.

And it, I think it still, it was one of
the early arcade highlights and I think

it's one of still one of the better, like
mobile puzzle games that's ever been made.

Right.

It's just like really, really good.

Um, you know, where, what it, what
I have touched on is, you know, the,

the, the monkey on everyone's back
in our sphere was altro when they

did the, the arcade edition of tro.

Um, and that's a great game.

Uh, and then I just saw Roller Coaster.

Tycoon came out.

Chris: Yeah.

Nick: classic, in a reissue, which
is interesting 'cause we actually got

that for, uh, switch or, or rather, my
son got that for Switch for Christmas.

Um, 'cause he was really interested in the
idea of doing all the designs and stuff.

Um, so I haven't looked at,
you know, how comparable it is.

Um, uh, if, if we wanna talk about
that more, that may be pivoting into

our, into our, our switch topic.

But one of the challenges of the
switch port is you, you have to

do a lot of things where you're
effectively mousing around and clicking.

But of course you're just
doing that with the JoyCon.

So you're like scroll, scroll,
scroll, scroll A to hit a button.

That would've been a, a, a, a drag and
click, you know, mouse interface for the

original, um, I think Windows version
of, of rollercoaster Tycoon whenever

that came out in 2002 or whatever.

Um.

Chris: Because you get to use the
touch screen at all with that, even if

like, if you wanted to or it's still

Nick: Yeah.

So I haven't, I haven't tried it.

I, I, that's be, like I said,
because we have the switch version,

but I, I might check it out.

Um,

Chris: Oh, wait, isn't the am I forget.

I was just

Nick: sorry.

Switch.

Chris: Switch is touchscreen, right?

Yeah.

Is it not?

Nick: Oh, yes.

So on, uh, I think when we tried
it on the switch touch screen, you,

you're, you don't, you don't, you
can't tap on the, the, like UI targets.

Uh, it doesn't, it doesn't translate.

It doesn't know how to translate
them the way they did the port.

Um,

Chris: And I would assume whereas the
iPad, if you had an iPad, let's say

Apple arcade version, probably it does.

'cause they're not gonna
assume any sort of controller

Nick: should we do some live research?

I think,

Chris: let's, we can dip into a
longer, uh, here, while you're

doing that, lemme just see here.

You can do, uh, can maybe even
try sharing your screen or no?

Do you have your phone
hooked up to your computer?

Nick: Mm.

Chris: your iPad or whatever you have?

Nick: that is a good question.

Let, let's see, let's see if, yeah,
so I, I do use iPhone mirroring a lot.

Let's see if this works.

Oh, sorry.

But Google Chrome is
required for screen sharing.

Oh.

So I can't from, from ECA
M unless I drop and rejoin.

Chris: Oh, gotcha.

Okay.

We'll keep it simple.

Then you can report back
in sometime in three

Nick: yes.

But, but yeah, so, so I think
arcade is, again, you know, I,

I drop in every once in a while.

I think, um, lately my, you know,
this, this year was the switch back

to full five days in office for me.

A little different, uh, from,
from, from your routine, I think.

But, uh, I.

Arcade was often a commute
companion on the bus.

'cause I commute by bus.

Uh, and, and it's like not even a
20 minute ride, most, most days.

So it can fit in a good game.

But, um, I think lately I've just
been doing work when I'm on the bus.

So,

Chris: Uh, adulthood.

Nick: you know, slack, slack and,
and whatnot on my, on my phone.

Chris: Yeah, that's, I know it's too bad,
but, so I'm looking through the list of

games and, uh, it definitely was like,
there's, there's three or four, and

for anybody who's not aware, like I, I.

I pay for it out of the Apple
one bundle because I have

three kids and a and a wife.

And so the five of us, effectively it's
cheapest just to do the Apple one bundle.

If we're gonna do any amount of
between iCloud and Apple Music, I

think basically, and then kind of
Apple TV if, if you consider the Apple

TV thing, something that we're paying
a little extra for to have Apple TV

plus, um, apple Arcade and Fitness are
effectively, and news, I guess, are

effectively thrown in for free ish.

Like you can't get it cheaper,
especially with the amount of storage

space that collectively our family
needs to back up devices and have

iCloud photo library, blah, blah, blah.

So, so I don't feel like guilty if
I don't play Apple Arcade games, but

it always feels like I, if I pull
open my phone and play a game, I'm

like, oh, I should make use of that.

It's still, I am kind of paying for it.

But yeah, Altro was the big one
that actually our three of our, my

family, anyways, our household went
through a big and sort of periodically

dipped back into it again, I.

Some thought or some distraction, or
one of us will play it for a bit and the

other ones will dip back into it again.

And, um, one discord I'm in, there's
some folks trying to do like a

basically complete everything
achievement wise or whatever too.

So it's always like a little bit of a,
oh yeah, I should do one more thing or

try another level or whatever in that.

So, um, but, but yeah.

Yeah.

Beyond that.

And then, yeah, um, grindstone is still
to me the classic, uh, apple arcade game

that I always look back to or play for.

Just fun, simple, waiting in line,
whatever kind of, kind of game

that's easy enough to pull out.

So, um, but yeah, it, it hasn't stuck.

And even my kids kind of groan at me
if I'm, like, if we're going on a road

trip, I'm like, okay, if you wanna
download any games to your phone,

maybe make sure you double check Apple
Arcade, whatever, whatever's new.

And they, there's, it's kinda like
I'm forcing them to watch the, like.

Whatever, Disney Kid light version
of stuff instead of whatever they

actually wanna play that their friends
are all playing and things like that.

Clash, Royal, et cetera.

Those kinds of games that are
more popular and common, um, on

devices, but at any rate, still.

Nick: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think, I think that, you know, I
have seen a couple of games come through

that, that are starting to get into
what you said earlier, that are starting

to get more into the like, oh, this is
almost a light version of a, of a major

AAA franchise, especially some of the
sports games that are available on Arcade.

Um, you know, it's, it's like a, a
trimmed down version of the, like

the, the Xbox version or whatever.

Um, but those aren't my
game genre like at all.

So I just haven't really paid attention
to them as they come through, but I

assume that's sticky for, for somebody.

Um, but yeah, I mean, we are, we're
in the same boat as you the, even

with just three family members.

Um, the one bundle, you know,
basically like news and arcade are

kind of almost free afterthoughts
once you get the storage.

Um, and, and some of the, I do
use some of the other iCloud plus

features pretty heavily, like the, um.

I guess it's, I guess the hosted email
is in there and the private relay and

some of those other, um, features.

Um, so it, it ends up
being worth it for us.

I think we, you know, if you, if you try
to a la carte it and be like, oh, I don't

really need news, or I only wanna turn
TV plus on when, when severance is on.

Um, uh, although if we go into TV
plus corner, I mean the, you know,

the, the sci-fi depth on, on, uh,
uh, apple TV continues to be great.

We just finished severance.

We're working through, um, shrinking right
now, which, not sci-fi, but, uh, the new

Murder bot series uh, comes out in May.

And there was just a big Vanity Fair
piece I think today that was, you

know, obviously just Apple pr, but
lots of details that make me mostly

hopeful for the series, uh, for, for
a set of books that I really loved.

Um,

Chris: Yeah, that one looks it.

I forgot about that.

That was coming out this year.

Um.

Yeah, it's, that's a tough one too,
where I feel like I could, I could like

ditch Netflix, Amazon, no offense, uh,
prime and, and others, other platforms.

But, uh, it always, yeah, again, five
people all vying for their piece of the TV

and uh, the various subscription services.

I haven't had the heart to like
lay down the budget, hammer

on, on one service or another.

And every Netflix is actually the
easiest one to ditch, theoretically.

'cause there's no benefit to
keeping it in terms of price.

You can always subscribe again and
there's not, you don't get, they don't

let you lock in any price anymore.

And so I feel like that's the easiest one.

But then literally every time I go
it's like, oh, but the, whatever

is season now two is coming out or
whatever, so we got, might as well

keep it now for another whatever.

And there are masters at doing
the five episode drop and then

five episodes next billing cycle.

And so it always just feels like, what's
the point of bothering me with it?

But

Nick: Right.

And then Netflix does have their
kind of arcade competitor in Netflix

games, which I've tried a few times.

Um, and I think it it for me, or for
us, it's always been, well, that's not

a reason to sign up for Netflix, but,
um, uh, when, when they got Monument

Valley, which of course was always an
iOS darling and kind of like a flagship

game, the first one was kind of a
flagship game for the original iPad.

Uh, or maybe that was
already a few models in, but

Chris: Yeah.

Nick: it, yeah.

Anyway, just Monument Valley
being new and exclusive on Netflix

games, um, was, was interesting.

And, and my son and I both played
it through, you know, it's more

like those early, uh, apple arcade
games where there's not a lot there.

Like you, you can beat
it in an hour or two.

Um, but they had in the
game when we played it.

Um, the, the placeholders for the, all
the new level releases that'll keep

coming if you stick on Netflix and,
and keep your Netflix games going.

Um, so I haven't dipped back in to see,
you know, what's, what's new since I,

since I played through the first batch.

Uh, but yeah, that's interesting.

And, and Netflix is also the one that
we, we turn off the, we have it right

now because I think my son wanted to
watch, um, uh, across the spider verse,

Chris: Oh yeah,

Nick: which was, which was
currently on there along with a

lot of other Sony stuff, I think.

But yeah, so it's, it's interesting
to see the subscription game

service model and where it fits in.

Um, yeah, so maybe if we, if we, we, you
know, where, where does that work for?

'cause we also pay for the Nintendo
Switch online, which is kind of

a subscription model if you care
about emulation and vintage games.

Um.

Chris: yeah.

That's actually one So that we can Yeah.

Switch into, switch into switch
corner, as we used to call it.

Uh, the.

We gave up, uh, I dunno, a
while ago now, uh, on Switch or

Nintendo online, the subscription.

And, um, but just recent, like literally
yesterday, they, uh, the kids rediscovered

switch sports and uh, why am I blanking?

Oh, Mariot party, which that doesn't
necessarily need online, but Switch

Sports does we'll play, you can
play online with people and, and

get achievements and unlock skins or
whatever it's called in that game.

And so, um, it, yeah, all of a sudden they
were both inde, independent of each other.

Two kids were like, oh, I can
sign up for the trial for seven

days and then I can whatever.

And so each two kids right
now have a seven day trial.

I have to remember to cancel it
actually, now that I think of

it, um, have the seven day trial
running each on their own account.

'cause it's like individual
or it's a family thing.

And the family one, I
think Canadian is $50 or.

Or a hundred dollars for the, um,
bonus one, I forget what it's called.

When you have more access to more games.

I forget what the, but they don't play any

Nick: Yeah.

Chris: stuff.

So anyways, it feels like
it's not that expensive.

But then it's like, well we had, we
did pay like four $50 or whatever

for the switch and we paid for
the $80 per controller and we are

missing one of our controllers now.

And like all these things
and you're just like, really?

Do we need one more subscription just
so you can unlock some skins in, in

we Sport switchboard or whatever.

But, um, I dunno, it's a, it's a, it's
at least the one where I feel like I

know the value is good if they dip into
the catalog, the back catalog of NES and

Genesis and uh, game Cube, et cetera.

Like, there's tons and
tons of games there.

My kids are just still at that
like game snob stage where if

it's not 4K, it's like, ooh.

You know?

And so if they, even if they did pull
out, uh, an old copy of Street Fighter

or something like that, or Mario
even, or whatever, it's still like.

It doesn't pass their
sniff test for some reason.

Their snob, snobby game sniff test.

But you've had some success with, uh,
the back catalog, or is it still more

just current games that get played?

Nick: Y Yeah.

So, um, I would say it's, it's a mix.

Um, we, we probably don't play it as
much as we think we would, especially for

if we're thinking about, uh, upgrading.

Um, but, you know, I think, uh,
so my, my wife had a, um, her

brother's, older brother's, Sega
Genesis when she was a kid, and

that was like her, uh, big console.

And so at some point we got the online
tier where we had access to the Genesis

at, and she went back to, um, echo the
Dolphin, which was a favorite of hers.

But it's a notoriously hard
game from that era, right?

Like, you just, you kind
of just die very easily.

Um, and of course that's 'cause
from that time period it is like,

there's not a lot of game there,
so we gotta make it really hard.

So you get like your,
your gameplay out of it.

Um.

So I think she was getting a little,
a little frustrated by, it's like, oh,

this isn't quite as fun as I remembered.

Um, but yeah, I mean, we, we, we dropped
in, um, we, we had a little family,

um, Tetris high score competition.

I forget if we were doing the Game
Boy one or the NES one, but one of the

older, you know, Tetris, uh uh, which
was funny 'cause I, we had Tetris on,

um, like a DOS PC when I was a kid.

And so that was my main gameplay and
it's rather different, uh, um, you know,

playing on a big chunky IBM keyboard.

But, um,

Chris: Yeah.

Nick: that was, uh, anyway, so yeah, we,
we do, we do drop in from time to time.

Um, we do try to play Mario
Kart online, uh, with, um, uh.

Like my niece or something.

Uh, and, and, and my sister's family.

Um, but not as, again, not as often
as we thought we would, I think.

so then it's kinda like, is is the online
sort of the, well, we like the cloud

backup features and some of these other
things almost more than the game catalog.

Um, kind of like with the one bundle.

Chris: Yeah.

And that's where like, it's interesting
my own gameplay too with, with the

online component, I, I sort of dip
in and out of needing it with friends

and then not needing it at all.

And whether it's on the Switch or even
our Xbox too, where it's like just

recently over the last month or two,
I've gotten back into Fort, well, I've

been playing Fortnite for a while, but
like got back into it, playing with it

with a friend locally who also plays
and we're just having a little bit of

fun dying to 10 year olds or whatever.

But, um, but it's just interesting how
the dynamic of that is like I buy the

Xbox for 500, or I suppose probably 600
Canadian anyways, um, with the Xbox X.

And, and then from there I've, if I,
if I was just playing Fortnite for

example, I don't pay for the game.

I don't have to pay for any skins
or anything if I don't want to,

and I don't have to pay to chat
and connect multiplayer online.

So like.

In terms of value to me as the
cheap, you know, video game Dad,

there's, it's hard to beat that.

'cause even like switch, like
we'll get into the switch too.

Like they're, they're talking about
all the multiplayer stuff, which is

great, but like, it feels like that's
a solved problem in so many ways.

And, and the Xbox does.

Like if I bought, it's funny 'cause
if I buy a game, like if I buy NHL

25 Laed version and when I play that
multiplayer, then I have to pay for

Xbox Live to be able to communicate
and play online with people.

The game works fine, obviously
not with a live component.

Whereas Fortnite, you almost have
to have, I think, online play in

order to actually play the game.

Well you do have to have
online to play the game fully.

And so it costs more to play online
with people, which makes sense to me.

But obviously there's like, epic Games
has a huge kickback to all these services

of some sort where they're willing to,
you know, let you use the live services

that other games don't get access to
unless you pay them for access to it.

So I'm not sure how that rental
arrangement works, but, um, 'cause even on

the switch too, you can play online with.

In Fortnite without Switch, uh, Nintendo
online subscription, whereas switch

sports, which you buy the game, then
you also have to buy the subscription.

So anyway,

Nick: Yeah.

Well, and I would guess that's you and
I, I don't, I, I don't have any like,

insider information on anything like
this, but, but I would guess that's

because of how they've decided to
account for the server time, right?

Like for whatever reason Epic and Fortnite
are like, you know, at the, having all

of these servers running and playing
all these games, it makes the game

work and it, and it drives our business
elsewhere by selling, you know, skins

and, and add-on packs and everything else.

Um, you know, or, or coins that no
one will ever spend or something.

Um, whereas, whereas Nintendo's looking
at the numbers and they're like, Hey,

actually operating these, these sports
servers is like part of our core business

and we wanna, you know, we wanna make
sure that those costs are covered.

Um, but yeah, you're right.

It's, it's, it's interesting 'cause
I think it's gotta be the case

that a lot of switch owners just.

You know, like you said, you either
turn, turn the online features off

'cause you're not actively using them.

Um, maybe, maybe a bunch of people
are, are like us where we, we we

chose for the annual pricing 'cause we
use it enough, but there's obviously

long periods where we're not costing
them anything in server bandwidth.

Right.

To, like you were saying earlier about,
uh, u using up, uh, uh, x's uh, streaming

Chris: yeah.

Nick: capacity.

Right.

Um, it, yeah, so I don't, I don't
know what the balance is there, but,

Chris: That's one of those,

Nick: certainly most of the online
games I've played, it's like

there's not a separate subscription.

Um, you know, when I, when I used to
play a bunch of borderlands, uh, with,

uh, with friends or, I mean even way
back, um, I dunno if you ever did Game

Ranger via Dialup, uh, but, um, yeah,
that was like a, a free, you know, I.

Land proxying kind of service
for, for some of these games

to do, to do point to point.

Anyway.

Yeah, it, it is interesting.

Um,

Chris: with switch two, um, I
going into it, uh, like obviously

it's been rumored for years.

I remember seeing on, even back in
Twitter days, like every other day.

For a while it felt like, or every
other week or whatever, Twitch or

Switch two was like a trending topic.

'cause there was some rumor and it was
gonna be announced and then it wasn't.

And then it was gonna be announced
and then it kind of felt like almost

all of a sudden it was announced and
it was like coming really quickly.

Like they, I forget what the exact
date was when they did this sort

of teaser, but then April 1st was
gonna be the announcement of all the

details about it, pricing, et cetera.

It felt like it happened
really quickly once it kind of.

The ball started rolling on it anyways,
so, um, so leading up to it, I guess I

was like thinking, so in our household
the sort of gaming inventory, like I kind

of alluded to is various iOS devices and
then a Xbox and a Switch one, and, and

then a computers that unfortunately none
of them are Windows, uh, gaming capable.

And so, um, I've been sort of thinking
about like, we're kind of at this

awkward point of like, it'd be kind
of nice to have another device in the

home that could play like the Fortnite
stuff, but also just gaming in general.

And so whether I would get a gaming pc,
which I flirted with for years and still

have never pulled a trigger on, or, uh,
or maybe we'd get a PlayStation 'cause

we don't have a PlayStation, so there's
lots of fun Spider-Man games and stuff to

play on the PlayStation or just another
Xbox, because we already have an Xbox.

You can share the games
already, et cetera.

But then the switch too is like,
well that'll be more powerful 'cause

it'll be newer obviously for a while.

And, uh, and a nice option to play
all the various Nintendo games.

We already.

Own and like, and enjoy.

So my, uh, that was sort of what I was
leading into it with and sort of like

with the idea of like, well, it'll
probably be cheaper than an Xbox or

a PlayStation, just 'cause Nintendo.

They don't, they're not, they're
not shy about charging for stuff,

but they also have traditionally
been not the most expensive option,

is how it's always felt to me.

And, and so then, yeah, without, obviously
everybody knows pricing wise, but when

they announced that it was like $629
Canadian as the starting price, like

the cheapest way to get a switch to
is, um, as much or more than, uh, Xbox

or PlayStation five, like current gen.

Anyways, I was kind of taken aback
actually that they were over 500

here in Canada, uh, for pricing.

And, and I, I don't know all the business
reasons why they need to do that, and

there's tariff discussions and all that
kind of stuff, but, but setting that

aside, I was kind of taken aback that it
was that expensive when they announced.

The pricing for it.

Um, despite even the, like I've seen
art write articles and writeups on

like, well, the pricing now is this
and it needs to kind of, you know,

we need to account for inflation and
blah, blah, blah and all that stuff.

But still in my brain, like my economic,
uh, emotions or whatever you wanna call

it, it was like, it's gonna be a sub,
like maybe 4 99 was kind of like where

I thought it might be Canadian, which
maybe that's 3 9, 9 American or whatever.

So what was your initial sort
of gut response up to it?

Nick: Yeah, so I think, you know,
the, the rumors had really started

warming up, leading into Christmas
last year, and we were kinda like,

oh, maybe, maybe we would get one.

And then I think we kind of had
it in our heads of, you know,

oh yeah, our, our 2025 budget.

You know, if there's, if there's a switch
to upgrade, we'll we'll probably get it.

Um, and I think the other factor,
you know, I mentioned being back to

office five days a week, and so I
don't need the guest room to be a

dedicated office space at home anymore.

Um, and so we're kind of.

And my son is 11, so we're kind of
shifting towards a tween hang zone.

There's a smaller TV down there.

And so what we're kind of thinking
is like, oh, maybe that's where the,

the original switch goes and the the
switch too goes on the main TV and,

and we don't have any other consoles
and don't, I think, play enough, uh,

where, where we would be really, um,
looking at, I, I think especially,

you know, me playing like a more,
uh, teen or adult oriented game.

Um.

I just don't, I don't set
aside the time for that.

Um, I think also unfortunately, uh,
for, for my wife, certain 3D games,

uh, really make, make her nauseous

Chris: Oh, no.

Nick: 4K high, high, uh, uh, frame rate.

Um, so, you know, it's, it ends
up being not an activity we can

do together as much, although she
can play Mario card just fine.

Um, among, among others.

So, yeah, I think, I think that's
kind of where we're, we're thinking

is like, oh yeah, maybe this could
be a nice little living room upgrade.

Um, but yeah, we're looking at, uh, four
50 US and then I think they basically

said the day after, because the.

At least the, in the US the, the
tariffs were announced, uh, hours

after the Nintendo Direct event.

Um, but Nintendo said, like, we are,
we're, uh, reviewing this, but don't

worry, the launch date is still June
5th, so it may actually be higher.

Um, you know, our, our Switch one,
we didn't get on the bandwagon right

away, but we bought like a Costco
bundle in February, 2020, uh, with

some unfortunately auspicious timing.

Um, uh, and, and yeah, I don't, I don't
remember what it was, but it was, it

was not, um, it was not four 50 us.

Uh, and, and we got some
extra controllers in it.

Chris: Yeah.

Nick: Um, obviously we've added
to the switch ecosystem over time.

We have some extra joycons, extra
controllers, uh, for multiplayer, and some

of those will work wirelessly just fine
with the switch to, um, I think, um, but

you won't be able to, you know, dock 'em
and charge 'em and, and all that stuff.

Um.

Yeah, so I think, I think it's still
on our list, but it's definitely, you

know, a, a higher, uh, a higher price.

And I think it looked like most of the
games were gonna be like $80, which I

don't know if that's an inflation factor
or accounting for, um, that actually

the, the console, even at that price is,
is being sold at a loss or something.

So it, it feels like there's some business
accounting stuff going on that, you

know, we as outsiders will never know,

Chris: Mm-hmm.

Nick: um, unless, unless Nintendo
says, or some, you know, Streck

does an analysis or whatever.

Um, which yeah, it, it, it's interesting.

So I think it's like, it's not a
dealbreaker, but I, I was talking

to, um, another parent at, uh, the.

My kid plays DD that he runs,
uh, with, with his daughter.

And yeah, he was kinda saying
like, yeah, we kind of want the

switch too, but that price, right?

So like it's at a, it's at a threshold
where, you know, people who love

Nintendo, who probably would, you know,
buy it without a thought if it were

more in the us, three to $400 range.

Um, once it gets above, once it's
starting to hit that Xbox or PlayStation

tier, it's, it kind of becomes a
different, a different, uh, story.

And, and obviously, you know, a
lot of people are being squeezed

on plenty of other costs for, for
various reasons, uh, right now.

So, uh, it's probably
harder to justify the fun.

Chris: Yeah.

That's what it's, it changes it from
like a, oh, we should have a discussion

about this maybe versus just like.

I will not like you're asking for
permission from your partner or whatever,

but just like it, it somehow, it crosses
some mental barrier to me of like,

yes, we obviously would, and assuming
we can afford to, we'll just do it.

Versus like, Ooh, are we gonna do that
or are we gonna do these other things?

And there's just something about
that, that, that, that price point.

Um, and I know lots of people are
gonna buy, like, I have no doubt.

I'm not debating whether
they're gonna sell them or not.

Like they'll, I'm sure they'll sell out
just fine and people will be scrambling

to get them and all those kinds of things.

That's, yeah.

I'm not

Nick: right.

Yeah.

I'm sure we'll see some scalping prices
that are, uh, or not, not not scalping,

but like some sort of gouging, right.

Uh, um, going on in, in, on the eBays
and, and whatnot as, as the, I'm guessing

the initial stock will be limited.

Chris: Mm-hmm.

Nick: but

Chris: they did do like.

Sorry.

They did do like a, a unique thing
with the price or like the ability to

pre-order was like based on whether
you had been a member, a paying member

of Nintendo online for X up until, it
had to be before the date announcement

date I think it was or something for
an X number of months or whatever.

As well as having a certain amount of
playtime on Nintendo games on your account

in order to qualify for the pre-order.

Right?

There's something like that anyways, and

Nick: I hadn't seen that part.

Chris: Yeah.

And so it was kind of a unique way,
like if on the one hand it feels

like, well, you're just rewarding
the people who can afford it or

who can pay for it or whatever.

And that's partially true, but like
I know from the fan club world,

like music and artists touring and
stuff, it's just a perpetual, like

whack-a-mole of trying to hit beat the
scalpers or whatever they're doing, and

doesn't it seem to matter what you do?

They're gonna figure out
a way to game the system.

Whereas this was like, nobody
had an idea it was coming.

And so like you can't, after the
fact, I mean I guess you could

go buy someone's gaming account.

You go hit kids up at the school for like
their Nintendo online account, I guess

maybe or something, and somehow buy the
switch that they wouldn't have bought.

Like again, they'll figure out a way
I'm sure to scam and, and uh, and

beat the system for some of them.

But it just creates an interesting
barrier for at least some of those

scalpers or whatever to steal that
would otherwise go to people who

actually want to play the system.

Nick: Yeah.

And I think, um.

I think, I think I'm, we're in
a position where like, it's not

like a hardship or anything.

It's more, but it's more just that
consideration of like, Ooh, is this

where we really spend, spend, uh, spend
entertainment, uh, money this year?

Um, and it, I mean, we, we probably
will still, but it's like you said,

it's, it's like it comes with a little
more thought, um, especially because

yeah, I have the, the knowledge like,
wow, my, my, uh, you know, 15 years

of accumulated steam li library Sure.

Could accumulate a lot more playtime.

Right.

Um, you know, in terms of entertainment
choices or, or even like we were

saying earlier, the, the various
streaming things that, um, there's

so much, uh, entertainment out
there, like why this specifically?

And, and that's where you
start to get into the sort of

Nintendo cache and exclusivity
of like, there's some of these.

Franchises that you're only gonna get, uh,
on, on Switch two and nowhere else ever.

Right.

Um, uh, so I, I think, you know, of
the, of the, sort of the pre-announce

games, um, Mario Kart World looks great.

Is it, is it really gonna be any
different than, is Mario Kart eight?

You know, there's, there's a bunch
of new things, but it, at the

core gameplay is, is is the same.

So do you need a new Mario Kart game?

Maybe not, but it'll be really fun.

I think.

Uh, I dunno what, what, what were
the games that were jumping out at?

At you or, or your kids?

Chris: yeah, definitely.

Like the Maricar world was the one that
our kids kind of grabbed to and, and yeah,

like having the, what did they up it to?

Like a hundred people you could
play online with, I think?

Or is that, am I mixing up games?

I forget how many,

Nick: I think that, I think it was 24.

Chris: okay?

Maybe I'm, oh, that was, yeah.

Okay.

Um, but anyways, more people
on the car on the course at the

same time, which is kind of fun.

Um, and I think like realistically,
they could also go the root of like.

Like, it's effectively, like I think
of the sports games that we sometimes

buy here is like the hockey one
or the basketball or the soccer.

It's kind of just repackaging
it with a bit of updates.

But effectively the, the fun you're having
is the same whether you're playing Mario

Kart 8, 7, 6, 5, or this Mario Kart world.

And so I don't know that it's like
that there again, like if it was a,

the price of the console plus that
is kinda like, is it really worth it?

And then forces you to
pause at least a moment.

And um, but I know like once we see
people playing it, whether it's Twitch

streams or like they, they go to a
friend's house and play it, then.

That'll just, yeah, increase the demand
or the desire to, to actually grab it.

And, um, I, I'm in a, I'm a bad person
to ask about the Nintendo stuff because I

have such a backlog of Nintendo games that
I haven't finished, nevermind Steam games.

I have both SDA games for the Switch
that I still haven't finished, but I

have, I do own, which, uh, is always,
uh, a, it feels like the guilty, like

I go to sit down and just play Fortnite
for half an hour and, and Breath of the

Wild, kind of like hovers in the corner,
like looking at me, sadly, like, aren't

you gonna complete one more mission?

Maybe today you could do one.

And like, so, and knowing those are
carry over and whatever, that's all good.

Like it, I can play those still on
the switch too, but the, the news

Zelda just sort of adds to the,
the stress of not having finished

the previous two Zeldas for me.

Um, but,

Nick: I I think on the flip side there,
there is the like 4K upgrade that you can

add to Zelda on the switch too, right?

So you can kind of be like, well
I haven't finished it, so now I

should stop playing on the switch
one, switch over to the switch two

and, and uh, add the upgrade pack.

'cause it's gonna look that much
better as I finish the story.

Um.

Chris: Yeah.

And that's, it is a, like the, you
alluded sort of to like deciding what

kind of game to play or whatever.

And I think there's the, the adults, like
I, I'm dealing with mortgages and I'm

dealing with those, I know we've talked
about this before when we used to the

podcast of like mortgages and financial
decisions and taxes and whatever.

And like the gameplay better, not sort
of appro, uh, get close to that kind

of level of management where I have
to like, feel like I'm managing my

inventory and managing stuff in the game.

When the, the task list becomes some of
like blurred into like house tasks and

Zelda tasks or like, I have to make the
food for the supper in Zelda, but I also

have to figure out supper for my kids.

How do I want to navigate
which one I'm doing?

Nick: Yeah, I, I, I, I moved on
from that life when I stopped

playing World of Warcraft, right?

Because, like, I was, I was doing the,
like, well, I gotta earn this reputation

with this faction to unlock this item.

And that requires, you know, 10
daily quests a day with them.

You log in, do, do the same little
loop every day of chores in the

whatever mountain region you're in.

And, yeah, that, that's
just not a, a, a gameplay.

I, I wanna put time in, uh, anymore.

Chris: How about you?

What games were sort of jumping
out at you that would be worth,

uh, or excite you to upgrade?

Nick: Yeah.

Yeah.

So definitely, definitely
the Mario Kart world.

Um, yeah, the, the Game Cube in
Nintendo online is interesting 'cause

that's one, while I would say probably
the Nintendo 64 was sort of my

primary Nintendo experience as a kid.

Like, seemed like all my friends had one,
and, and that was what we played a ton of.

Um, especially Mario Kart and then
later Goldeneye, um, like my roommate

in college had a game cube and so I
played a couple of of games on that.

Um, I think, you know, Civ seven being on
the switch to is interesting because that

again, feels like, well that's obviously
a, a PC mouse clicking round game, but

the switch two comes with a mouse mode.

So maybe that's, uh, that's an interesting
place to play it and it's more portable.

Right.

Um, then again, I've barely
put any playtime into the

Civ six pack that I have.

So, uh, I should probably
just go back to that.

Um.

The, the Donkey Kong Bonanza one.

Looks like it could be fun.

Um, I, I mostly played the
old SNES Donkey Kong games.

Um, of, of those, um, I think, I'm trying
to think what else was on the list.

Um, I think one that was really weird,
uh, was there's like a kind of a tech

demo game that like, and, and like it
tell, teaches you about the, the switch

to and some of its features and stuff.

Uh, the welcome tour, but it's paid

Chris: Yeah.

I saw, I,

Nick: that seems super weird.

Like, I don't understand why this isn't
just like a free little demo game.

Um,

Chris: Yeah, it's, it's bizarre.

I saw, I, I hadn't really connected
the dots on that, and I saw, I, I don't

know if it was TikTok or whatever, I
saw a rant about some guy, just like

how Nintendo is just milking every
dollar out of everybody, and I was

like, they're charging for a tech demo.

That seems so bonkers.

Like this is like what you did
just to have as a throwaway thing,

like who, who's gonna buy this?

And,

Nick: Yeah.

And, and that's what I, that's
what I wonder is that, is there's,

there's something weird with
the accounting going on, right?

Where they're like, well, we can't, do
you, do you remember when, um, I think

it was the iPod Touch, you had to pay
for software updates the iPod Touch for

a while because the iPhone updates were
free because it was covered somehow

through the way they were counting your
cell plan kickback to Apple or whatever.

But, but the iPod Touch, you had
to pay for iOS updates anyway.

Um, I feel like there's
something weird there.

Chris: Yeah.

Nick: Yeah.

Um, the, you know, the, the Metro
first person, you know, I, I

remember really loving the Metro,
original Metro Prime on Game Cube.

That, that could be interesting.

Um, uh, like I said, the, the, the 4K
upgrades to the Zelda games could be fun.

Um.

Chris: yeah.

Nick: I guess, I guess this one is, it's
a switch two edition, which is the kind

of InBetween where it's like the, the game
is reissued, remastered, and reissued for

switch two with a, with a higher graphics.

Chris: Yeah, which I, I wish, I mean,
they'll never tell us obviously how

much work goes into porting or upgrading
or whatever, some of these games.

But it does, that does feel like a
money grab in terms of how much they

charge for the version for Switch two,
like when they've, same thing with the

Switch, where they would like reissue old
games but still charge like full switch

pricing for the game that they've already
made a bunch off of on the we or the

Weu or whatever, whenever it came out.

And, and obviously they sell enough that
it's worthwhile to keep doing, but I

feel like it should be a, at a discount.

But anyways, that's being

Nick: Y Yeah, so I think that's where
it gets weird with, with the, the

switch to switch two is like the.

The game cards are
physically compatible, right?

You can drop a switch one
game into a switch two.

Um, but the, uh, my understanding is the,
and we'll get more information when they

do like tear downs and stuff, is like,
the chip architecture is different, right?

So when you're running a switch one
game on switch two, it's actually doing

just in time instruction translation,
just like Rosetta on a Mac, um,

you know, or, or using some similar
technology or, or, um, the proton stuff

that powers the steam deck, right?

So you're, you're, it's not quite
emulation, it's not really virtualization.

It's that kind of weird in between thing.

But what that means is that a, a
switch one game is one, it's not

gonna get any of the, the, um.

The features outta the box, the
hardware features outta the box, like

chat, like mouse control, et cetera.

Um, uh, and there may be performance
issues, which they, so they, so I

think that's kind of where the switch
to addition comes in is like, Hey,

we've worked with the developers.

They've actually recompiled their
game for the, the switch to, um,

Chris: Yeah,

Nick: but, but I think it's gonna be very
confusing for, you know, grandma bought a

switch one game at Target not to pick on
grandma, and it, it, like, that one just

doesn't work on, on the, the switch to,
for whatever reason that particular game.

Um,

Chris: Which,

Nick: mentioned the compatibility,
I, I kind of assumed it would be

like, oh, well, like the hardware
stuff for your joycons won't

work, but everything else will.

But it sounds like it's
more nuanced than that.

Chris: yeah, which was, we have
experienced that a little bit with the

Xbox One and the Xbox X games being
like, they'll, sometimes they would

issue separate versions and you have
to buy the right one, and sometimes

they're bundled and you, so you got
both, and each publisher was a little

different in terms of how they handled
that for each kind of game, I think.

And, you know, demand
obviously, or whatever.

But, um, yeah, so it's, it will be kind
of a, a weird kind of timeline, I think.

Do you buy mostly cartridges or
do you just do it online with the

games you've bought for your switch?

Nick: We, we've done more physical
and I, you know, in, in some ways

that's less convenient, right?

'cause you have to swap 'em out.

Um, and I'm not, you know, I, I'm not
sure what our thinking was on that.

I think it, it kind of felt like,
oh, we actually have the game or not.

Um, so, so I guess somewhere we're not
trusting the cloud or whatever, which

is maybe ironic for my profession.

Um, uh, my comments do not
reflect those of my employer, et

Chris: Yeah.

Nick: Um, uh, but, but I think
I saw something recently in the,

in the context of some of the
discussion around the switch too.

I was like.

Where it makes sense to buy
physical is if you think it's a

game you're gonna finish or not.

Like, and you wanna sell it, right?

Because you basically can't
resell a digital purchase.

Um, whereas if it's a game like Mario
Kart where you are pretty confident

you're gonna play it indefinitely
for the lifetime of the console.

'cause it's just, it's that great
kind of game you can always drop into

then maybe that makes more sense.

Um, and, and uh, you
know, so I can see that.

Um, I think Hades two, you know, that
you just scrolled past is, is one,

you know, I have Hades one for Switch.

Um, I, I got to the end of the
game, but I have not completed

the Roguelike elements of it.

Right?

So I haven't done enough of
the run to get the full story.

Um, but uh, that was one of my favorite
games on, on Switch and I think I would

probably, you know, pick up Hades two.

Um, and it's interesting because,
uh, my son is, I think, not quite

old enough, you know, either
content-wise or skill-wise for Hades.

But, um, he and all his friends are like,
just all in on Percy Jackson and the

Olympians and Greek mythology remixes.

And so like, I think it would
be his jam, uh, for, for that.

Um,

Chris: yeah.

Definitely.

Nick: yeah.

Chris: Yeah, there.

It's, um, yeah, I keep watching little
trailers here as you're talking,

and then I'm getting more and more
convinced that it would be a good

idea to have a switch to the trouble.

Nick: Yeah.

Chris: again, it's that aspirational,
I don't know what the word is for it.

Like, uh, it's definitely like marketing
and stuff, like, oh, I need that.

But like, um, aspirational gaming of
like, despite the fact that everything

in me, like logically I know I have
civil, like you said, civilization, six

sitting unplayed on a steam library that
I could, like, on this 3000 max studio.

I could play it right now anytime I want.

And I don't, but somehow I was
thinking like, oh, but if I gotta

switch to, then I would play it.

Like, it's that weird, like if I buy
the gym membership plan, then I'll

start working out even though I have a
treadmill in the basement or whatever.

Like

Nick: Yeah.

Well, I'm, I'm, I'm sure I have
wasted more than a switch to in

gym membership fees over the years.

Uh

Chris: That's what, in the one discord
we were talking about, I was like,

I'll just give up buying coffee.

So like, my average coffee is $6 a day.

Not that I buy it every day, but
I'll just give it up every day.

And so then it'll actually only take
me like, you know, 150 days or whatever

to get enough money to buy a switch.

Two there.

I've, I've, I've balanced the books in

Nick: Yes.

Yeah.

Easy.

I, I am very curious what
their bond game will be.

Um, 'cause you know, it's
interesting 'cause like Bond is a

franchise I think has kind of, uh,

Chris: Yeah.

It's a weird timing for that.

Nick: its difficulties.

Its weird timing, uh, uh, but
I, I have such fond memories

of Goldeneye multiplayer when
I was a kid, so, you know.

At the same time, I think my
kid is not, you know, quite age.

Right.

For that, I don't know.

I, I guess maybe your, your
oldest would be in this kind of

sweet spot for this potentially.

Chris: Yeah, I mean we, that that would,
that's where like now that we have our

oldest is like 17 and our youngest is
12, the 12-year-old definitely gets

see, gets to see and play stuff that the
17-year-old didn't at 12 necessarily.

And so, um, yeah, it's, it's a, that's a
whole interesting dynamic of him having

friends over and watching a movie and
we're like, oh, like you, we never showed

that movie to you and now your two friends
are saying they wanna watch it with you

and how do we cross, cross that bridge?

But anyways, that has nothing
to do with the switch too.

But um, yeah, it's a funny world

Nick: Yeah.

Um, I think the, yeah, that, that's
one where we're, you know, I think I.

At least with the, the tween age at
11, uh, it's, it's tricky because like

maturity wise and difficulty wise,
like, especially for reading, you

know, he can handle more, but like
the jump from like a middle grade to

a ya content wise is so different.

Um, and, and like, you know,
kind of are you emotionally ready

for, for some of this stuff?

Is, is, is a, uh, a challenge.

And then yeah, with games, I mean,
you know, I think there are a lot

of games where story-wise he would
probably be fine, but I, I feel like

the violence is still a little too
much for what we were comfortable with.

So it's like a, it's like
a year or two away maybe.

Um.

Yeah.

Uh, so, so we have, you know, we
have some parental controls in place.

Like, like, I think, um, since we
last talked, I, I did the whole

STEAM family library set up.

And so that, that, it's actually been
kind of great because that massive,

uh, steam library archive I just
went through and said, oh, these are

approved, and now they're available,
uh, in, in his STEAM library.

And so he's replaying, uh, maybe
even putting in more game time

than I ever did to some past,
you know, steam sale purchases.

Um, and so that's like a nice
little, uh, uh, payoff there.

Chris: Yeah.

Yeah, I remember reading it reminds me of,
uh, I think it was Andy Bayo who waxy.org

is where he blogs, but, uh, him talking
about, or maybe it was Matt Howie, I

can't remember one of the two anyways,
where they like basically made their kids

like in a loving way, but like they had
to play through sort of generationally

and, and build up to current stuff.

I'm sure they still like friends are over
or whatever, they did that, but like,

just in terms of like their own game time.

Like, you play this game and then you play
this game and kinda like leveled them up

through it, which is an really interesting
effect and, and way of doing it.

I think that in hindsight would've been
fun to do, but I know like the wild

card is always the friend with the older
brother or sister who all of a sudden

unleashes whatever, you know, whatever
area of life you're hoping to protect

your kid from the sibling, the friend
with the sibling, the older sibling is

the wild card that you cannot control.

And all of a sudden they come home
with questions about what they

saw on YouTube at their friend's
house, and you're like, oh, that was

Nick: Yeah.

Yeah.

Chris: from our world.

Yeah.

Nick: That's one we've
definitely run into.

'cause with, with, we have YouTube
available, but quite restricted.

It's like, Hey, yeah, let's talk about it.

These channels are great.

These other ones, you know, you
can't just like explore freely.

'cause we know there's a lot of stuff
on there that's, that's just, uh, not

what we want him engaging with alone.

Um, maybe together we, you know, we
could, but there, there's like, uh,

uh, memes and cultural stuff and
language usage that's, a lot of his

friends have nearly unrestricted
YouTube or TikTok access or whatever.

And so they're picking things up and
then we're hearing things that he's

getting secondhand that way, which
is like a whole weird, you know,

whether it's uh, uh, you know, like
certain slang or, or, or other stuff.

It's just kinda funny.

What, what propagates from
that like, older side.

Um, it, it, you know, you can't, yeah.

You cannot control it.

And, and, uh, just kinda.

I have to let go be be okay.

Um, I think, I think mostly what we're,
we're, we're, what we're working on is,

is kind of, uh, not so much managing
total screen time, but knowing when

it's appropriate to just like, pick up
a screen as opposed to like, actually

this is a time to be fully present.

Um, and of course a lot of that is me
modeling some pretty bad habits of like,

oh, I just got a work notification ding.

Um, and so, so having that whole family
conversation of like, well, the rules

are different for adults, but also you
should feel free to call us when we

are like literally not listening to you
'cause like our phone distracted us.

Right.

Um, so that's a whole, yeah.

I, I don't think the switch to is gonna
solve that or cause much of a problem.

Uh, honestly,

Chris: other than to say the
switch, Nintendo stuff is, uh.

Terrible in terms of family
management of screen time.

Like their, their ability to lock or
protect devices or whatever, like, 'cause

you can't lock down, you can, the only
thing, at least on the switch right now

that you can do is from this time to
this time, there's parental controls.

So it can't be used effectively.

Right.

I think is, and you, and
you can't buy things without

approval or password or whatever.

And it only ends up, at least for me,
it only ends up biting me 'cause I'm

like, oh, I'll just go check out the
store and then I have to like enter

the password even on my account on the
switch to, for our user account to log

in to see the store and then I have
to remember what my password is or

pull up my phone and do the QR code to
like log in with remotely or whatever.

Um, and so then I basically have
turned it off 'cause it's just

more annoying then it's helpful.

Uh, whereas yeah, using Xbox, uh,
I think PlayStation is similar,

like definitely Windows computers.

You can very granularly control like.

From nine till two, it's
not available at all.

They just, they can turn on the Xbox, but
they can't, literally can't do a thing

and, and I don't have to worry about
turning off the internet or whatever.

It's just the Xbox is locked
during those times and then

you get really good reports.

Not surprisingly, I guess from
Microsoft every week I can have like

how many hours they spent on the
Xbox, how many, many hours they spent

on the Windows pc if we had one.

Um, and actually gra even
more granular than that.

Apps themselves like, or games themselves,
like Fortnite, actually you can en

enable a parenting mode where you do
get updates on how many hours your each

kid spent in, in a game like Fortnite or
whatever, which is kind of eye-opening.

Some, some weeks for sure.

Uh, and uh, yeah, so Nintendo
is definitely like way far

behind the curve on that.

But again, they don't have the
same, like, I mean, they do have

Fortnite on the Switch and, and
other addictive games like that.

But generally speaking, they don't
have the same stuff that kids are

getting so drawn into that it's.

You know, bordering on dangerous.

Like, I mean, you could say that
it's bad if you spend 16 hours

playing Mario Kar in a day probably.

But really, uh, lifelong mental
challenges or mental health issues

that result from too much Mario Kart.

I don't know.

There's, there's not a lot of
documentation that that's a struggle, but

Nick: It, it, it's interesting 'cause
I think recently, um, you know, my, my,

I think my, we were all together, my
family and my sister and I were talking

about like, oh yeah, you know, like this
TV show and that TV show and, you know,

my, my parents were certainly portraying
that and, and it felt like, oh, we had so

much less screen time than our friends.

But when we, when we actually think
about it, we had plenty of screen

time, and obviously it was mostly
TV and then some computer time.

Um, but, uh, I think even now, my,
my parents would say like, oh no.

Yeah, you barely had any of, so
we were very restrictive, right?

It's like, well, I don't know.

Like there were some systems in
place we had to say like what

we were watching and stuff.

But, um, I, I think in, in
hindsight we got plenty.

Uh, and it wasn't even like
interactive creative stuff.

It was mostly just passive viewing.

Right.

Um.

Chris: NBC, the local NBC affiliate
didn't email your parents or, or fax

over a report on how much time Nick
spent watching cartoons on a Saturday.

Nick: Yeah.

Di Disney Afternoon report would've
been, uh, pretty bad there for a while.

Uh,

Chris: Exactly.

Sorry.

Nick: and then, and then
the Star Trek reruns.

Chris: Oh yeah.

That's how you learned about
life with Star Trek reruns.

Uh,

Nick: Yeah,

Chris: in terms of like, we're not
trying to be an exhaustive review thing,

but I'm just curious your thoughts,
'cause we talked about a little bit

about it, but like some of the hardware
upgrades that they are making to the

switch to before we end here, um,
like what's, what stuck out to you?

What's sort of like made you
question or why or wonder or

whatever and in terms of hardware.

Nick: yeah.

So, so I think more,
more powerful, certainly.

And like you said, yeah, there
are, there are better reviews

than, than, uh, this conversation.

But, um, you know, it can do, there
are a lot of asterisk on what.

Resolution and frame rate you would
get in which context On which games?

So like if it's the switch to game versus
the switch to edition game, are you

playing it handheld versus plugged in?

Um, uh, and, and so, you know, I,
I felt like I needed that Excel

table to, to really understand
what all the combinations were.

Um, but you know, the, the short
of it is, it's, it's certainly not

as powerful as a a, a gaming pc.

It's getting close in power
to, um, you know, a current

generation Xbox or PlayStation.

Um, and, and it seems like it
can kind of ramp things up when

it's docked and plugged into a TV
because they put a fan in the dock.

And the only reason I can think of you
would do that is because they, they clock

the, the chips differently, or they,
they do the core management differently.

Um, and, and let the whole system
get hotter for, for, you know,

better, um, better resolution,
better frame rate output.

Um.

I think, you know, a lot, I'm sure a
lot of posts and podcast hours will

be spent on, why isn't it OLED and I
dunno, it's 'cause they'll do an OLED

switch too in a couple years when
they need to jump the margin bandwidth

again, again, just like, uh, iPhone
17 instead of iPhone 15 or whatever.

Um, and, you know, I think they've
said like, oh, you know, it's a really

good, uh, uh, LCD display with, with
great black levels, but it's not OLED.

Okay.

Um, and I think similarly it, you
know, there's a lot of speculation.

It's like, oh, did they
fix the JoyCon problem?

Did they fix the JoyCon problem?

And most people were assuming that
would require hall effect sensors, but

then they said, oh, it's definitely not
hall effect, but they're really good.

Um, at the same time, we haven't
really been burned by, uh, failing,

uh, JoyCon, uh, joysticks with like,
I, like I've read about, um, yeah.

So I, I think it's, it's like a good.

Compromised hardware.

I think for most of the time, whether
you're playing Mario carte world,

you probably won't notice or care
about all of those little details.

Um, and, and I think in, in a lot of
ways, you know, we've talked in the past

about like our, the sort of simpler games.

Maybe you get an arcade or whatever
that, um, the chasing the specs

is increasingly very, very silly
because we are surrounded by insanely

powerful computers all the time.

And, and the marginal difference between
whatever real-time ray tracing your,

your, uh, massive, you know, rayon is it
No what, whatever the, in, whatever the

latest Nvidia, uh, multi-thousand dollar
GPU is, um, like yes, you can squeeze a

little bit more out of it than mobile.

Uh.

Uh, GPU chip sets are capable of, but
in terms of gameplay, I just don't think

you're, you see a difference much anymore.

And maybe that's me being like, yeah,
I'm fine without all those fancy,

uh, you know, super extreme graphics.

But, um, yeah, I dunno.

What, what do you think?

Chris: Yeah, I think the, that's where
the price does make me pause again because

it's like, uh, I can tell the difference.

Well, our, our family can definitely
tell anybody who plays just

using Fortnite as the example.

'cause that's the game we play
universally, uh, sometimes

and on all platforms.

And like the switch, nevermind
controls or whatever is a noticeable

drop in terms of play quality if
you're playing a game like that.

And so not that, uh, Fortnite
is the measure by which I would

judge a gaming system for.

But I do think, like if the switch.

Two comes out and it's comparable to
where the Xbox and PlayStation are now

visually able to keep up with them,
like look as good or nearly as good.

Um, whether it has all the ray tracing
stuff or whatever, you know, specs wise.

But it just looks, the water effect looks
as good as it does on both all platforms.

That that's great now, but
then Nintendo's gonna hang onto

this for as long as they can.

So four years, two years, even from now
when we have the Xbox 11 or whatever,

where they go, um, in naming the, it's
going to again, feel like this step down

in terms of a control or a system and,
and get set aside more often in favor

of, you know, these other platforms.

Even just in terms of buying a game
like there is, they put out like, um,

soccer, uh, and some of the other sports
games, for example, on the switch.

But there's no way we would buy
it on the switch when we have.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Chris: It on another platform.

'cause we all, we know it's gonna
look much better even when we

plug it into the TV doc mode.

Um, so that's the part that, yeah, it
gives me pause in terms of buying it.

'cause I would love it for, um, although
there, it's funny 'cause playing, just

going back to Fortnite, playing Fortnite
on the switch, it feels like there's a,

a mode that's flips on where it's like.

Easier targeting because you're on
a switch than, 'cause I was playing

with my son on, he's on the Xbox and
I'm on the switch, which normally I, I

make them use the switch 'cause it's,
I bought the Xbox I should get to use

the, my, my Fancy TV and my fancy Xbox.

Um, but anyways, I was playing on the
switch and I was like, I was doing really

good and I was like, wait a second.

It feels like I'm actually hitting people
really easily and there's like whole

discussions around bots and whatever
in the game, but when you're playing

multiplayer, but, but even still, he's
in the, the thing with me and usually

he's substantially better than me just
'cause of hours he's put in as I can

see on the emails from, from Epic.

But, uh, but I was doing really good
and I was like, oh, maybe it's actually

the switch that like compensates.

'cause even something as simple as
this is silly, but like, you know,

they have sniper rifles, right?

And so you, you can see.

Further away with a sniper
rifle, down a scope.

But on a switch it doesn't because the
view distance isn't as far graphically,

you can't see the same as some.

So you can be standing on a hill and, uh,
he's in this office with me on the Xbox.

He can see the person across
the hill and shoot at them.

I don't even see that they're
there on my, on the switch, which

makes for an interesting, like,
side by side experience of gaming.

And like even from a competitive
advantage, then I would

think the Xbox is better.

And then if that's better than the,
you know, the $3,000 gaming control or

video card, PC based gaming is gonna
be actually that much even better.

'cause you visually could see,
you know, the, the whites of

their eyes theoretically across
the hill or whatever thing is.

But anyway, I digress.

Like it's very minor and it's not
like deciding factor, but for me it

would be like, well this is a thing
we enjoy a lot as a family and do, uh,

for fun and just kind of laugh and at
the silliness of the game together.

And so would I pick at a switch right
now or would I rather have an Xbox?

Well, probably an Xbox.

'cause I know it's gonna be.

As good, if not better in the long run.

And portability isn't as big a concern
in that area, but that's, that's

where I guess the, the experience
of having the switch and seeing how

little we actually use it portably.

Um, I, I've, I'm less interested
in it as a portable device, and I'd

rather they put a little more juice
into it as a docked device somehow.

But we'll see.

We'll see how it plays out.

Nick: Yeah.

And I think, I think for us, like I
basically almost never play, uh, portable.

Um, and we don't, like, we don't have like
long road trips or something where it's

like a, a, a entertainment that travels
with us and, and some of that is maybe

we just don't, um, travel super often.

Um, but, uh, definitely my son uses
it in that sort of lean back mode,

um, like on a Saturday morning
or something before we wake up.

Um, sometimes even in the
living room where the big TV is.

But he just likes that experience of
kind of being like, you know, uh, chill,

chill with the, with the switch one.

And so we, I think we would see similar
use for the, for the switch too.

Um.

Chris: Yeah, the, the one thing I'll say,
just I, I can't remember when we talked

last, I don't think I'd ever, I don't
think I had it at that point because

I think I just got it last Christmas.

Um, but buying the pro controller for
switch, like Nintendos or, I mean, I'm

sure there's third party versions that
are just as good or close to as good,

but getting the Switch Pro controller
changed the, my usage of the switch,

honestly, because, not just for Fortnite
and stuff, but like there's something

about sitting on the back, on the
couch, on the TV doc mode and having

the controller, and then I, I got Metro
Prime, uh, dread, I think is the one I

Nick: Yes, I think so.

Chris: yeah.

And so like, it's just so much
more natural to me than using

any of the JoyCon configuration.

Even with the little, uh, what's
that, whatever that's called, the

adapter to sort of make it into a
controller having a natural buttons

and a gaming stick and the arby.

Whatever buttons it makes
it feel much more natural.

And I would highly recommend if you
have a switch and you play anything

other than just a Nintendo, you know,
games for fun, pick up a Switch Pro

controller, which again, I'm sure
there'll be a Switch Pro Controller

two or Switch two Pro controller.

Nick: They, they announced it already.

Yeah.

Uh, 'cause 'cause it, it has
to have the, the c button for

the, the new chat functionality.

Chris: that one made me like almost
throw up in my mouth a little.

'cause I was like, they're pitching this
idea of like chat as if they couldn't

have done that without this button.

It felt like the most appley
Steve Jobs reality distortion

field moment of the whole thing.

And I was just like, you gotta be kidding.

Nick: yeah.

What an amazing technology.

Um, I, I, I do think the basic, at
least the current Nintendo Switch

pro controller, I think is the best
controller of that form factor.

Like, I think it's better
than the Xbox controller.

I've barely used the current PlayStation
controller, so I don't really know.

But, um, just like something about
ergonomics and sizing and everything.

Um.

I, I think, I think it's the
best, the best one on the market.

Um, and yeah, we, we use it all
the time, whether it's for the

emulated games or, or Mario Kart.

Although for Mario Kart, uh, I always
play with the wheel because that is

my, um, hand handicap when playing
with the family, uh, to, to make it

a little more, um, evenly matched.

Chris: Right.

Because yeah, we actually never picked
up a wheel ever with the switch, so

it's, it just makes it a little more
awkward to use or like, or the handheld,

like holding up your arms that long.

Nick: it, that, and, and I think
the, the motion sensors, like every

once in a while it'll misread what
you did, and so you'll, you'll like

skid out weirdly and have to correct.

Um, so yeah, I think that's the, um, but
it, it, it also makes it a little more

fun of a challenge to be like, oh, I'm
drifting, I'm drifting, I'm drifting.

Right.

Um,

Chris: I do think that's where,

Nick: about those for the switch too.

Uh, if we, if we would
get those add-ons right.

Chris: Yeah.

Yeah.

They're, they're just gonna make
a ton of money on all the add-ons.

Again, that's must be, they must
be just anxiously looking forward

to seeing the bank number go up on

Nick: Yes.

Yeah.

Even, even in the current,
uh, environment, I think, uh,

Nintendo will be just fine.

Chris: Yeah.

That's listening to lots of, uh, like I
edit podcast for with rich web dev nerds.

And it's not even like the pricing
is like, oh, it's, that's funny.

It's so much.

And then that's it.

And then moving on to like, how many
of them are we gonna buy or whatever.

You're like, do I want one for
each room or just one for Yeah.

No, it's not.

Nick: Yeah.

I, I mean, I, I guess, I guess I have
that, you know, maybe in common with some

of that tech demographic or whatever,
like the, the, the Marcos arm mentor

who are, who are buying the new iPhone
multiple times a year or whatever.

But I've just never, I've never wanted
to go and, and upgrade that frequently.

Right.

Um, so, uh.

You know?

Yeah, I think, yeah, we, we probably will
grab it, uh, when it, when it comes out,

but, um, maybe we won't rush to grab it.

I don't know.

Chris: Well if, if you're
allowed to even have it, right,

Nick: vary.

Well, yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, we'll see, we'll see how many, um,
get intercepted at the border or whatever.

Chris: all of a sudden, that's where it
gets all messy with like, do you wanna

be American or do you wanna be Canadian?

'cause Canadians actually get
the pre-order and all that stuff.

So maybe you wanna be, you guys
wanna be Canadian for that moment of

Nick: Yeah, I, you know, we're,
we're, we're close enough

to the border in Seattle.

I do wonder if there will be people like
running up to Vancouver to grab, you know,

some, something really desirable, like
a switch to, or, you know, maybe when

the new iPhone comes out this fall, and
then bring them back, uh, w uh, to, to

sell in like the greater Seattle area.

I don't know if that'll happen.

Right.

But it, it seems like the kinds of things
that, that could happen, uh, when, when

you start getting into these weird, um,
uh, tariff and, and whatnot situations,

Chris: Yeah, it's such a weird thing
'cause it's for all my life basically

and my entire life it's been, go to
the states to buy stuff 'cause it's

cheaper there and now it's this.

Yeah.

Nick: right?

Yeah.

But NAFTA and all that good stuff, right?

Chris: what's the relief
state for the switch to I,

Nick: June 5th.

Chris: June 5th.

June 5th.

Okay.

Pending world events,
obviously, but who knows?

Uh, but yes.

Okay.

June 5th.

All right, well maybe we'll, uh,
we'll chat again at that point.

If you've picked one up or
something happens, we'll see.

Nick: Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, well it's, it was good to
catch up on, on game topics again.

I guess we, we actually went kinda long
for, for what we used to do for 25 cents,

Chris: Yeah.

Yeah.

Nick: uh, we had, we had a
lot of time to catch up on

Chris: Yeah, yeah.

Probably a, an annual for the amount
we get into the nitty gritty of a game.

It's probably better to do an an annual
or semi-annual episode rather than trying

to do weekly or biweekly when we're just
like, I don't know if anything's new has

been come out and I haven't had a chance
to play games this week, so goodbye.

Nick: yeah.

Which was our, was our habit when we
were trying to do a regular cadence.

Um, yeah, I guess this can be our,
what our, our, our Easter special or

Chris: yeah.

Well that's where, so if anybody's,
I don't know if what I'm gonna do

with this content exactly, or this
recording content is such a weird word.

But, um, yeah, I think this, the
Twitch thing and chatting like

this, it's kinda like, I'd like
it to be more like a talk show.

We hang out with someone when there's
a chat with Nick when there's a gaming

thing or a chat with my friend Tim, when
there's like, well anyways, so kind of

using it as a little bit of a platform
or excuse to just chat about things

and doing it in public a little bit.

'cause that's just how I do
things on the internet sometimes.

And then.

Yeah, in a very lazy, because it's
not, I don't want it to become work

kind of way of getting, putting stuff
out into the world without having to

spend hours and hours editing more
podcasts that don't make me any money,

uh, unless I get the affiliate bits
from Twitch, I guess, or something.

But anyways,

Nick: Yeah.

I feel like the, the, the casual, uh,
the casual handling of that kind of

thing ends up, it works better for me.

Anyway, like, yeah, I'm not trying
to like, oh, I'm gonna have this

many blog posts a week or something
like that, or post every day, but

just like, oh well when I have
something, I'll, I'll put it out there.

Um, that feels like the, if you're,
if you don't need to do it for the

money or the, or the influencer
credit or whatever, uh, it feels

like the right way to think about it.

So it's not a chore.

Chris: Did they say,
sorry, random last thing.

Did they say anything about
just thinking of Twitch?

Did they say anything about like,
capturing the device or any sort of

DMCA locking stuff that I, I can't
imagine they would've said anything

in the announcement about that, but.

Nick: So the, no, it seems like
given that they showed the ability

to do the chat streaming, um, I do
wonder if there'll be like, you know,

built in streaming off the device.

Right.

And, and certainly you can do it,
you know, on, on mobile with like

the, the, the Twitch app or whatever.

I imagine where it's harder is,
is 'cause there's not really like.

You wouldn't go get like an
additional app that's like

running in the background, right?

Like just doesn't have that software
model, uh, in the, in the switch to

os Um, so they'd have to build it in.

They, I guess what I mean is with Nintendo
online, there's certainly a way to capture

and stream your video off of the device.

Right now it's for sharing when
you're playing a multiplayer game,

seems like they could at a future
date, you know, wire that up if,

if they decide to make the various,
uh, deals and, and whatnot involved.

Chris: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Interesting.

We'll see where that goes.

But, oh, even in like the capture
card thing, like that's where

Switch has always been complicated.

'cause like the doc is required
to connect to any sort of capture

card if I was gonna stream off of
my computer or whatever, let's say.

Um, and so I, I don't know if
this one, because USBC is in, well

no, it was in play before anyway.

The device itself couldn't stream.

You had to like, have the dock
in order to be able to stream.

But, um, I would, it's, it's still
interesting to me that Nintendo isn't

more friendly to that stuff in the,
in terms of how much it helps grow

gaming and market share for a game.

Just seeing other people play it.

Like my kids will happily watch,
there's games my kids never heard of.

I've told them about that They
should try and check out that they

will only check out because they saw
some guy streaming or, or a YouTube

video, whatever, of a guy playing it.

Nick: right.

Chris: all the, yeah.

Nick: Yeah.

And I, I think, you know, for all of the
issues that like Steam has as a platform

in a store, that there's, there's a
reason why a lot of the indie game.

Growth manages to happen there.

The way they manage, you know,
demos and early access and, and

you know, all these other things.

There's stuff you can't do in the iOS
app store or on a platform like Switch.

Um, it, it's not, and, and then, you
know, just the way development maybe

even is easier and not having to pay
certain licensing fees and all that stuff.

Um, it it, it seems like Steam has
become the very attractive place for

the little guy to, to get their, their
fun weird little thing out into the

world, um, in a way that wasn't true
or, or I think will probably still

not be true on, on the switch to,

Chris: Yeah.

Alright, well if nothing
else, we'll see you in June.

Where can, uh, where can folks find you
if they want to, uh, read more from Nick?

Nick: I, I, uh, my, I blog on
my website blog.alterna.net.

That's alterna with a u and URD.

Uh, and um, I.

Most of my posting and I abandoned,
uh, Twitter a a while ago.

Most of my posting is on, uh,
Macedon, at alterna@tacobelllabs.net,

uh, which is the, the punting domain
run by one of my, uh, friends.

So I think I originally met
through, uh, podcast, uh, community.

Um, yeah.

So, uh, that is where you can find me
and Ultranurd everywhere, pretty much,

Chris: Yeah.

Yeah.

Some of the, that's where the,
the Twitter was just nice.

How when Nice it rolled off the tongue
rather than having to figure out which

server we're on and which whatever.

But anyways,

Nick: yes.

The, the Fedi has that downside.

Chris: yeah.